2 law enforcement groups that check & balance each other

Normal law enforcement (In America) always works in a hierarchy. Local police dept or sheriff’s dept have their hierarchy culminating in the police chief (and mayor) or the sheriff. State police hierarchy ends with their top cop (and governor) and the federal police agencies (FBI, ATF, etc) have their head guy who serves under the president. In theory, the 3 groups should police each other, but in reality, I’ve seen local cops usually let state cops be in charge, and state cops usually let federal cops be in charge. So there isn’t much checking and balancing.

The uber-cop idea got me thinking about free-agents in law enforcement. And I came up with this preliminary idea. The new country has two law enforcement groups that are completely separate from each other, and are created to be able to police each other.


First is the police, and they are a somewhat normal govt agency that has a hierarchy. They employ officers that are paid for each hour they work. There is an upper limit to how many hours they work per week (maybe 36 or 32 hours, enough for three 12 hr shifts or four 8 hr shifts). Technically they will all be part-time; they must have a 2nd source of regular income. This is because someone who derives 100% of income from 1 job can easily be forced by that job to commit extremely unethical acts. The only common way they can get away from commiting the unethical act is to immediately quit their job, hence the 2nd source of income.


The 2nd law enforcement group is the Citizen Defenders and they will be the free-agents because they will have no hierarchy and no bosses. There will be mandatory service of 6 months in this group for all citizens of the country at 24 years old. This service will be easy to get out of if the person wants to claim to be a conscientious objector to violence or some other acceptable excuse, but that excuse will be publicly available information. So there will be a strong social pressure for the 24 year old to complete their 6 month service.

There will be two routes the young person can choose. Option A, become a gun carrying law enforcement officer. Option B, become a support person. I imagine many men will choose option A, and many women will choose option B, but technically they are free to choose either route. The way these options are setup is to enable the Citizen Defenders to operate as a self-organizing militia style defense force if the country is attacked

(This description is for option A, I haven’t thought thru the support role yet) The 6 month service period will be entirely a training period to learn everything needed to become a law enforcement officer: learning all the countries laws, firearm operation, arrest procedures, etc.

After they are done with their 6 months training, they can apply to be employed by the police dept if they want. If they are employed by the police, they can never return to the Citizen Defenders. No revolving door; they can only be an active or reserve officer for the police.


In the community, the police will be the ones to quickly respond (5 min or less) to a request for help and do the things that police normally do: crime scene investigation, riot control, etc. The Citizen Defenders will be alerted if there is a help request near them and can choose to respond to the incident, or not. If they indicate they are responding, they will be paid for the time they are on the scene. Their primary job when responding to a police scene will be to police the police; make sure no citizen’s rights are being violated, make sure a crime scene is handled properly, and also to just keep the general peace. They will have a body camera recording as well as a firearm mounted camera recording.

It will be against the law for anyone to give orders to a Citizen Defender. The police cannot tell a Citizen Defender to help him do his police work. The Citizen Defender chooses his own actions based on his expert knowledge of the law, and if he violates any laws, he is held accountable just as anyone else would be. At the end of the incident, all video recorded at the incident will be automatically wirelessly uploaded to a server and it can be reviewed if any accusations are made.

The Citizen Defenders will have a training, logistics and certification dept. This dept is NOT a headquarters group as there is no head authority figure and no one issues any orders to any Citizen Defender. The training, logistics, and certification dept will handle initial training as well as once every two years re-up training to keep people actively certified. If a Citizen Defender commits a crime, their certification as a law enforcer can be suspended temporarily or revoked permanently.

(Edit add-in) The 6 month Citizen Defender training period is NOT a military boot camp. It is just a 5 day-a-week schooling period. There will be no yelling. Military boot camp is mostly to get recruits to follow orders without thinking. The CD training period is to create individuals that can think and make decisions for themselves. At the end, they will have a high expertise in the laws of their country and will feel empowered to take part in defending their communities. Isn’t that the type of person you want living next-door to you?

Hopefully this Citizen Defender concept and its mandatory 6 month training period can become a big part of the social “glue” that holds the new country together!


(Extra- for firearm nerds) The Police and Citizen Defenders will use a short rifle system instead of a pistol, as other police usually use. It will be a short barreled rifle with a folding stock that can be single-point mounted on their front plate carrier. All their non-lethal options will be mounted on the rifle so that non-lethal can be utilized and then deadly fire can quickly follow if non-lethal doesn’t stop the threat. The rifle will have an under barrel launcher for bean-bag projectile and the first round in the magazine can be a rubber bullet. So they can hit an advancing threat with a high velocity bean-bag, then a rubber bullet, and then deadly fire after that if need be. A taser or pepper ball launcher might be added to the rifle or the overall kit.

I have had a similar idea like this for years. Law enforcement must not in any form have what we call in the US qualified immunity which lets them literally get away with murder with no justice being served.

Yes make them have a 2nd income source and be part time is critical to having ethical people and the citizen defender and the body and are a must for accountability.

The citizen defenders are I think the greatest key to the future society. It is the glue to keep the society together. It embraces the uber cop concept and they have the immunity from being bossed around by law enforcement when they are doing their task and duty to their community. Other countries may have mandatory military service but this brings it to a new level that should really become the gold standard. I hope this is the way forward for the world at large. The age you choose is fascinating to me but I think it is appropriate as studies show humans don’t fully mentally mature until around this age and this type of work requires you to be fully aware and encourages critical thinking something that current military and law enforcement highly discourages as you have mentioned Murf.

The use of different weapons and the types used goes along with the model of escalation that I was taught in my private security training it is crucial in my opinion to do everything possible to deescalate the situation. I don’t think a lot of this will happen if the society is morally cohesive BUT everyone needs a ton of training to keep this mindset in place.

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Thanks Martin! I was afraid the concept of mandatory service might be too much for some libertarian minded people. Though as I have it structured, it’s not really mandatory service but more like mandatory education. Switzerland has mandatory education for dog owners!

I’ve been trying to think of ways the Citizen Defenders can be involved in other areas of police work (to prevent corruption) beyond just emergency calls, such as crime scene investigations like murder, organized crime group investigations, and undercover work. I’m not sure how that will all work, but I know police depts have a history of keeping way too much stuff secret (just like our federal govt) and there needs to be a way of having transparency and accountability. If you think of any ideas, let us know.

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The idea of mandatory service is one that many libertarians have a hard time swallowing but I my opinion one cannot fully be integrated into a society unless some type of ritual is done. I know that sounds corny but throughout time all cultures used to have some “rite of passage” that would make one become an adult and fully one within their community some were more barbaric than others but this is what holds a group of people together more than anything else can. I think it is all in the wording for libertarians to get behind. I just am not sure what that is currently.

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Yeah I didn’t think of that one. Citizen Defender training would be a great rite-of-passage ritual, because at the end of it, we would literally be telling the young people, “We now trust you to protect our community.”

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I thought about this when I was reading your post because we did discuss what could be the social glue that would unite this new country and I think we just found a component of it. The biggest issue I see moving forward is how citizenship is to be granted.

I think after a fixed period of time after the establishment of the country one would have to complete the citizen defender program or something similar and because if we in the US still did this like we did up until the civil war era the country would not so easily roll over to big govt. Just to clarify what I mean I am talking about the true militia system that each state had up thought the civil war into what is now the national guard because they wanted the military ultimately accountable to the president not the individual states to prevent something like the civil war again.

I can into much greater detail into how the American Civil War was not actually a civil war by definition but a war between the states this area of American History since I was about 10 years old and this area of history is when I realized that much of what we learn is from the victors not the actual truth.

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You bring up a good point, the CD program can’t just be started with 24 year-olds, because at first, the country will be filled with people of all ages, and everyone needs to do the CD program or it won’t be meaningful. All citizens need to do it.

I was watching the movie Police Academy the other day. For those who haven’t seen it, the main character Mahoney gets arrested and his dad was a cop so his dad’s friend, who is high up in the police dept, forces Mahoney to complete the police academy otherwise he will go to prison. There’s some funny shenanigans that happen because Mahoney tries all sorts of different ways to get kicked out of the academy, but in the end, he decides he does want to be a cop and graduates the academy.

I imagine some tiny amount of the people doing Citizen Defender training will be like Mahoney and rebel against the training. The training won’t be pass/fail. There will be some sort of test at the end, at a minimum a test of knowledge of laws, but no one MUST pass the test. If they pass, then they are a certified law enforcer and can police the streets whenever they feel like doing so.

Anyone who fails the test at the end, or chooses not to take it, will still have been trained to help their community. And they will recognize the sacrifice made by those who are active law enforcers and they can still be citizens that will step up against threats the same way Spencer Stone and his friends took down the terrorist shooter on a French train in 2015.

You bringing up the French train terrorist attacks I think is a great example of ordinary people steeping to protect their fellow man in their community. I would myself step up for service if the opportunity was ever given to me but I don’t think it will be in the near future for us Americans to be given the chance to get over there unless something drastic changes you have to have an EU passport at this time…

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Yeah there were some consequences for the heroes that stepped up too; Spencer’s thumb was almost severed by the terrorist’s knife attack. Maybe this would be a good example of having a charity or crowdfunding effort for citizens who step up heroically, to at least fund their medical expenses.

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Yes charities need to be established for these exact reasons! Charity is a great force here in the US and could be even greater if the govt didn’t get in the way. With a blank slate of LL and no govt hindrances private charity can really do some benevolent work!

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Getting back to the law enforcement topic, I was thinking that there could be additional free training courses for Citizen Defenders to take if they desire to take them. For instance: one course would be crime scene investigation, and successful completion of that class would qualify that CD to go to crime scenes (that are now unlocked to them on the law enforcement app) near them and act as monitors of the ethics and professionalism of the crime scene investigators in the same way that election monitors are there to keep elections honest.

Also it allows a 3rd party mind to analyze the crime scene and pursue different ideas of who a perpetrator might be. Police historically have, because of their hierarchy, generally only rigorously pursued one track of investigation.

Police need to not have a monopoly on crime scenes. This is a monopoly like any other and incentivizes sloppy work and low ethics under the guise of secrecy for “privacy” or not having “leaks.” There would have to be ongoing checks for leak-y cops and also CDs.

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Certification is very important for crime scenes! We don’t want corrupted crime scenes but also accountability to those investigating. I see a huge opportunity for people to become Private Investigators who would hold not only the police accountable but also solve any crimes more efficiently I would think.

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That’s a good idea; the CDs that get this investigator certification should also be able to be private investigators with it. And then compete with the police to solve crimes.

This idea’s getting so big, it’s almost like someone is going to have to write a fictional crime thriller book about it so that folks can understand how it will all work.

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That would be some read for sure the libertarian free market at its finest!

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The first step should probably be, to find a common understanding of any law-enforcement activity on LL Land. Where can I read more about the progress with Croatia?

Find Tom Walls most recent article on Croatia on the LL Press site; that sums it up well.

Here’s a question for you Tadeo; how do you feel about a governmental body (LL Senate) that is made up of un-elected aristocrats that will serve in their positions until their death, and on their death, their position is transferred to their son or daughter and this is repeated to infinity and they cannot be voted out or removed in any way? Does this feel like a “free” society to you?

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Hi Murf,

Many thanks for you quick response and the reference to Tom Walls article.

Regarding to your question about LL Senate; there is always a transition period from the “old school”, here Senate to (hopefully) the new Senate. Nothing in the world is permanent and CHANGE is the only certainty. I understood that LiberLand should be build on merits. So should it be.

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Yes Tadeo thank you for your response. The only problem is that the UK people are still attempting to get rid of their “house of lords”. Power, once given, cannot be easily taken back. And the key point about the LL Senate is that they have made it a point to say that it is “hereditary” which means their family owns that position FOREVER. Forever is fundamentally different from temporary.

Are you referring to the article from 8.04.2025 (see attached/below)? I would be nice to know what current and proactive talks are undertaken right now. This issue looks like major bottleneck and stops the development of LiberLand. There are many ways to “skin-the-cat” and fast progress with the Landscape development of LL.

So the easiest way to decide the issue of the LL Senate is just to put it up for a vote. 1 person, 1 vote, and definitely not using the system where the president holds 70000% of the voting power.

The LL govt wouldn’t have a problem going with the will of the people on this issue, would they? Certainly they will vote in favor of the Senate if that is the most logical and reasonable way to move forward?